Here are some facts about fully foamed spas:
We think that using a lot of foam in the cabinet is a good
thing. It only sounds good to those who are not
engineers. Or to those who were trained in engineering in the
last 20 years.
I have asked many of these, so called, "engineers" if they even
understand what causes foam to become an insulator. Not one of
them, even with a PhD in thermodynamics, has the correct answer.
This is because the foundation concepts of what makes insulation is
not taught in the universities. All they know is how to
use formulas to calculate heat loss and what the minimum amount of
insulation they can
get away with in any area of the world. To keep costs down,
and to keep profits up.
It amazes me how much money controls the products. When
I worked in Aerospace, all paid for by the government, we did not
work with minimums. We built in overkill at least 140% on most
frames in an airplane or ship or submarine. In Haven Spas we do the
same thing and sometimes we use 200% over kill, particularly on the
plumbing. We get more water flow from our jet pumps, than the
manufacturer's specify in their catalogs. The catalog flow
rates are based on "normal" plumbing. And we actually READ the
charts showing the characteristics of the pumps and their "sweet
spot" where pressure and volume vs electricity are at the optimum of
efficiency and with no stress on the motors.
The original idea of stuffing a shell with foam, had NOTHING to do
with insulation, but rather a cheap way to support a thin
shell. Actually, it is the cheapest shell manufacturing in the
world. After all, it was made in Southern California near the
Mexican border. How much "cold" they have is "bone
chilling". NOT!
So, you might ask yourself: Why are these cheaply made
products being sold with such HUGE profit margins?
I call it consumer lack of knowledge. Whenever possible
spa sales people and manufactures take full advantage of your
ignorance.
We know that foam has a fixed R value of insulation per inch or per
CM of thickness. It is normally measured at about
R-4 per inch in normal spa foam.
Thus it takes about 23 inches of spray foam to equal the insulation
in a Thermally sealed spa. In our Alaska Insulation we use it
would be about 40 inches of foam to equal the insulation values we
get from our testing.
The absolute best foam made today and used in spas is R 7 per inch.
But that is not used around plumbing, because you could never dig it
out to fix it.
That means that at least 20 inches of continuous foam is needed to
equal the insulation of a Thermally Sealed Haven Spa. AND this
foam would have to be 20 inches continuous top bottom and sides with
NO equipment compartment at all.
You will notice that in full foam spas, they are missing a lot of
foam. For instance where the main plumbing pipes are and
the valves there is less than 2 inches of foam.
So the water running in the sidewalls of the spa is actually not
very well insulated at all. While the spa is running in
winter, the outer pipes are losing heat like crazy.
In some of the stupidest designed foam spas they put the main water
manifold all along the top of the spa shell, where there is
practically no insulation. As soon as you remove the cover,
the main plumbing is nearly naked and exposed to the outside
world. Isn't that just plain stupid?
No matter what these guys try, the spas are not insulated very well
in comparison to modern engineering using modern "space age" type of
insulation as we use.
The design of stuffing a spa with foam is fine if it was sold for
less than $3,000 USD. And if it was sold as an
indoor product. Or told to the customer the actual cost for
setting it outside in winter in most of the USA.
In our store, we would have these "Calif. Spas" owners come in and
ask how to shut down their spas, because they had a $100 electric
increase (Colorado Winter) from the spa. So, we would instruct
them in the process of "winterizing" the spa.
This is about 4 times the electric bill of our spas in the coldest
of winter in Colorado.
What is ethics and what is morality? Isn't it being
honest with other people? Isn't it making products with your
customers best interests at heart. "Do to others the way you
would like to be treated."
Some of these people believe, with all their hearts, what the
corporation said to them about these "engineering masterpieces" they
are selling. After all, the parent company, like
"Fiasco*, makes about $14,000,000,000 per year, so we know
they are honest. Maybe they just know how to hire and
pay the best of the BS artists they can find. I know that they
don't hire design engineers to design or change the spas, but they
do hire engineers to find ways to make the cheaper. Most of
their spas are now made in Mexico. I have not found even one
page of their advertising that is truthful.
"Do to others the way you would like to be treated." I think
we are the only spa company using that "rule" of ethics.
I am not kidding about that. If there are others, they
certainly don't know anything about spa engineering, but may be
"honest" Christians. And so they can plea, innocent by
ignorance. There are many dealers, who bought into the whole
sales pitch and they make a very good living off these cheaply made,
overpriced, "engineering masterpieces".
Now you know why Haven Spas are so hated by the spa
industry. 1/ We don't' have dealers. 2/ We sell
direct to the public anywhere in the world. 3/ We have the
best history for longevity and energy efficiency in the world.
This ethical stance, is why the owners of Haven Spas will never join
any of the industry "clubs", organizations, that are owned by these
not so ethical
companies. How many "professional organizations" have
been sued out of existence for killing or maiming people? The
NSPI "National Spa And Pool Institute".
I don't even know if they have a clue what they are doing.
Maybe they are just ignorant of science and engineering.
But the laws of thermodynamics have NEVER changed to make full foam
a good idea in modern days, unless you want to have a HUGE cabinet
filled with foam all around the spa vessel.
Read about our
D.A.I.T. Insulation methods.