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General Category >> General Board >> Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!

Message started by HavenMade Administrator on Aug 3rd, 2011 at 2:13am

Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on Aug 3rd, 2011 at 2:13am

deepak patel wrote on Aug 3rd, 2011 at 1:55am:
Great images.

Spa Therapy is different than what is seen now in (other than Haven) spas.

The major muscles in your back need to be kneaded and massaged. The proper pressure, size of jet nozzel and proper type of rotational jets need to be used.  The lactic acids need to be flushed from the muscle tissue after exercise. and with older, people, or people who only get exercise once a day or less, when you exercise the next day you are in pain if you don't get proper therapy in a spa or hot tub (or from a professional massage therapist).

In the modern world of computers, stress, and very intermittant exercise, the muscles do not have the fitness, nor the abilty to refresh themselves by moving out the acids created from exercise.  Hot tubs are the answer to that issue.

However the massage must be correct to get full therapy.  There are very few spas that have proper designed jet patterns for this. 

Neck tension is best removed with the smaller sized "neck blasters".  We have had this feature longer than any other company, and have perfected the use of these jets, the position of them and the angle to the upper neck is nearly perfect in our spas. 

And in our spas you can have the jets your way. We now have several "a-la-carte" jets you can order as upgrades from our standard models.

When people come into our showroom here in Europe where the Haven Spas are now made, they get into our "basic" model, and without exception say: "This spa is stronger in therapy than any of the competitors we have tried".

Then they try the "fully loaded" model of the same spa to experience the options which are all added to that spa.  They are then blown completely away. They had "no idea that a spa could do that".

Proper jet type and proper pressure is very important. And sometimes it does hurt a little to go in on sore spots that need special therapy to release the tension. This is well known in massage therapy methods of Polarity Therapy, Shiatsu, Acupressure and all the body/ mind health methods.

I was trained in Polarity Therapy, and had a practice in Southern California.  I now use that knowledge to design jet patterns and to apply pressure to certain parts of the body correctly and with almost infinite variable pressures available to the spa user. 

No other company has this. Because they do not have the knowledge.   8-)

I feel sad for people who buy any other spa, because I know for a fact that ours are made better and have the therapy that all people really need.  It is a shame that other spa sales people and dealers do not have what we have, and we have offered them a franchise of our products.

Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on Jun 6th, 2013 at 2:38pm
Check out the new information on our Dutch built spas!


Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on May 16th, 2016 at 3:37pm
Hot Spunge Spas new and truthful advertising. 

Low End Enjoyment - Our wide variety of cheaply made jets and jet systems allow you to customize your weak poor hot tub hydromassage experience. Sooth your senses with our tranquil and relaxing water, light , and music features. It is tranquil because we don't have any jet pressure.

Short Endurance - Our hot tubs are engineered and built for the realities of daily use. We use the cheapest  quality materials and state-of-the-art components from 1986 when we stopped our engineers from speaking.

Cheap Ease - We combine CHEAP technology with awkward controls. And we design our spas with the understanding that you'd like to spend time trying to figure out how to get the jets on in the seat you are in.  That is because we put in cheap pumps, then split the flow three ways so that you get 1/3 of a spa for the price of a real spa.

Energy Efficiency (whatever that means?) - The nation's leading independent scientific and engineering firm conducted carefully concocted tests that have no basis in reality.  We used a spa that has a weak heater and poor jet pressure inside a box with no actual people using the spa.  We figure that consumers are ignorant about scientific truths.  By removing all the in the field parameters from the experiment we can concoct data that looks better.

Confidence (false sense of security) - You can relax in the knowledge that you bought the cheapest  spa we can make the most profits with. Because we feed the uniformed consumer so much BS, no wonder over 600,000 suckers have made Hot Spunge ;D the number one selling brand of portable hot tub.

Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on May 22nd, 2017 at 5:59pm
Haven Spas still after all this time, we have no competition

We beat out ever production portable spa, hot tub, on every aspect  of function.

1. The most energy efficient design ever created.  With our 7 layers of foil-foam-foil-air chamber, and completetly air tight cabinet chamber. There is nothing that even comes close to the energy efficiency.  In Holland we "give" an energy meter with each spa.  It is able to keep track of energy use of ever spa and now you can track it online. 

How many spa companies give an energy meter to test the actual electrical consumption of your spa? 
Answer; 1.  If you want this meter in the U.S.A. it is extra.  Simply because you can buy it here in the US for less.

2.  By our specailly designed plumbing system and using actual engineering on the plumbing we now get close to the same amounts of water flow and pressure as a 1 Hp more.  For instance we only use the 4 HP pumps now, because we don't need 5 Hp any more to achieve intense therapy.  While others are still forcing water into too small of plumbing pipe, and too many Tee's and Elbows, we eleminate all Tees and 90 DEG standard elbows and only us smooth flow. 

3/ Longevity.   Every aspect of design allows for efficient use of equipent and never taxes any part.  It is called overkill.  No equipment, nor plumbing part is stressed as is common in "standard" spas.

4/ Ergonomics.  It is simple, make the spas around human use.    Our phylosophy is that function comes first, and form follows function.  Comfort and form go together.   

When I look at the stuff of other brands, I see no place for feet in the foot well.  It is called a foot well so that you can put as many feet as you have seats.  I see confined convolutions in other spas that eleminate ease of movenment. 

In Haven Spas we make sure the spas are enjoyable and functional, design is secondary.  When you want to set up on the edge of the spa to cool down and not have to get out completely as in most spas, we have that.  Larger flat areas allow comfort to sit obove water.  Rounded, as in stupid designs, does not allow any comfortable seating on the top lip of the acrylic.  There is a lot more about this as I have discussed for many years.  No loose filter lids to break and cause harm to people when they slipe out and people sit on them, "by accident", because there is no other place to sit.  Our seating is designed to fit the maximum number of different body types with comfort.


Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on Jun 26th, 2017 at 11:32pm
I am putting up our spa prices for US customers tonight.   The details and new specifications will be added in a few days.

:) :) :) :)

Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on Aug 1st, 2017 at 12:08am
Haven Spas are selling very well in Europe.    The reasons are very obvious. 

The intelligent people in Holland, Belgium,Germany are well educated and understand what it takes to make anything. 

The market in the USA is filled with mediocre and people seem to be satisfied with mediocre as being "the best" they can own. 

It is a sad statement on the education system in the USA, which seems to be more concerned with money than anything else. 

20 years ago, when we started the HavenSpas, we were the first internet spa company to be successful and to sell spas all over the USA with complete warranty service and most of our customers were engineers.   Many were professionals, CPA's, doctors, lab test engineers, mechanical engineers, professors, electrical engineers and many well educated people who happened to have technical and scientific knowledge.  It is now 20 years later and they are contacting me about how to update the spa they own.  The shell and the plumbing are fine and because our therapy exceeded every spa and was 30 years ahead of the rest, there is NO reason to buy a new spa.  That was our "mistake", compared to the rest which are throw away products, after 7 years people start thinking about a new spa. 
After 19 years the Haven Owners are referbishing their spas. The shells are 35 to 40 year items.  Talk about a "green" product.  Keep the spas out of the land fill is one of the best ways to "recycle". 

And there is a company who actually can recycle our spas and use the material for counter tops and put back into fiberglass products.  You cannot reuse ABS/Acrylic spas because the cost to remove the ABS is too much and nearly impossible.

Knowing what I know,  I still cannot believe that anyone would buy one of those shells that crack and leak in less than 5 years. 

Title: Re: The condition of the spa industry. Lemonade from Lemons!
Post by HavenMade Administrator on Aug 1st, 2017 at 12:13am
Why buy a Haven Spa?
Shell structure.  Acrylic backed with a vinyl ester resin bonding agent, and hand rolled fiberglass for a strong shell.  We use 5 layer method with three vinyl ester layers and two polyester for the strongest shell, absolutely the best, currently in production.  This is well known as the best shell structure. Most shells using other materials (or the same materials not properly laminated) are still experimental  or have a known failure rate of surface cracks and leaks.   If you are going to experiment with something on a consumer, it certainly should not be the spa shell!  (unfortunately this is the most expensive part, so most use inferior methods and/or materials.)  Use fiberglass, with a layered Vinyl Ester bonding agent behind acrylic.   (Don't buy a thin cheap single piece Acrylic/ABS shell stuffed with structural foam!)   If you want cheap, then don't pay high prices for it.
The cabinet is fully engineered and structurally framed in 94x44 MM (3.70" x 1.73") lumber, top rail, bottoms frames are 145x44MM (5.70" x 1.73") and sides all structural framing.  We don't use plywood on the bottom.  The pumps are rubber mounted to the frames to kill sound and hold them solid.  The more mass under the pumps the quieter they run. We have a lot of sound deadening engineering use in Haven Spas.  This is stronger than any other form of hot tub manufacturing. According to my engineering reference a  94x44 has a vertical strength of  about 1500 LB per square inch or 1.5 x 3 x 1500 = 6750 PSI.  So, don't tell me about cheap steel frames that fall apart with rust or hollow plastic that is untested over time. We have 40 years of testing on wood frames and know how to use them. Wood is found on the oldest of spas. And our lumber comes from forests that have been cultivated for over 1000 years in Norway.   
The Pumps are all 56 Frame Century A.O. Smith motors in the US or , and a new, high energy efficient, EMG's from Europe (Italy) motors with class F insulation and with dual cooling fans on Vista, Eclipse, SE and SC, also available for upgrade on the other models.   These are the most modern of all motors and the highest quality made for spas.  There is nothing better.  The operating temperature is 50 degrees C or 122 degrees F. ambient air.  The armature has an extremely tight distance from the field coils to transfer magnetic power much better.  The windings are all larger wire, and the bearing and starting circuit is more along the commercial size, bigger.  It basically is a commercial size high energy efficiency motor instead of a 48 frame consumer grade motor.  The HP range is from 1.5 HP to 4 HP.   
The maximum horsepower we need is 4, because of the extremely clean large over-kill plumbing.  We use the cleanest, practical,  plumbing available on any spa today.  It has fewer turns and larger pipe than most any of the standard spas "out there".  We engineer the plumbing to a much higher degree than anybody I know of.  We follow standard hydraulic design principles and make almost no concessions. You will never see a standard 90 deg. PVC fitting in our spas jet pumps. "Dynamic head loss" is at an absolute minimum.
Much of our plumbing is made of solid PVC pipe and modern high density vinyl mass flex pipe.  In the high end models, we use more of it.  It has better water flow characteristics and a much longer life expectancy than old flex pipe on a pressure line.   This gives water a clean smooth and larger pipe.  In the engineering design reference manuals it states that solid PVC pipe and smooth polished stainless steel have the least resistance to water flow, or the most water can go through them without restriction.  Smooth inside pipe is the best. (a child's arteries and veins are like this; smooth and without tight bends)  It is best to make turns as sweeps, and to use smooth wall pipe.  Our flex has few ridges and is very smooth as well.  Old flex pipe has washboard ridges on it, causing water turbulence, and we try not to use that on our super high flow pumps.  Our pumps use a 2.5 inch suction inlet manifold pipe and a 2 to 2.38 inch pressure pipe to the manifold. And we avoid "gaps" in the joints as much as possible.  The pipe is cut square on power-saws.
We have the best  insulation design available today.  It is the only truly engineered and fully tested insulation.  It has been tested in extreme cold, to full summer with out problems.   With this system we extract all the energy used in the pumps, both mechanical and heat.   I don't like to waste money on electricity being sent out into the yard.  Much better to have the heat pass into the water first.  Read about the DAIT system and Download a pdf brochure
The control system we use is better than anything I have found.  We use a high end custom made control boxes with metal enclosures, and electronics with 30 Ampere and 40 Ampere sealed relays and 30 and  40 AMP  contactor, relays on the high watt heaters.  Sealing the relays eliminates the air and oxygen to burn the points.  It also keeps the moisture out of the relay.  The circuit boards are designed to take up to 155 degrees operating temperature.  The spa will never achieve that temperature in a hundred years (unless we get hit by an asteroid).  We use air control methods to separate the control box from the heat of the pumps.  We have a total control over the thermodynamics of the Haven Spas. The control box is metal, instead of plastic.  Steel and aluminum manufacturing costs more but is much safer in the event of a short or arc in the control box.  It will not escape the metal enclosure. I have seen my share of spas that caught on fire and control box fires will not happen in Haven Spas. (Google "hot tub fire" and look at the photos. It is always the plastic melted control box that caught fire.)
We eliminate all of the loose filter lids.  They are dangerous and the first thing that people break.  I had a woman break her knee bone on a spa with a loose filter lid on an Older Coleman spa and I was showing it too her. This is how I know.    A loose filter lid is a bad thing!  It it the first thing your friends will lean on when they get in.  When they lean on it, it slips out and bangs their elbows, arms, and sometimes faces onto the hard shell.  I remember a fellow who came into the store I used to work at.  The lid had a lightening like tree crack that spread out from the center of the pressure point where it snapped.  It also had a blood stain on it.  He told me, and this is the exact quote: "They had to pull it off my ass."  OUCH!!  His skin tissue was caught in the lid when it cracked.  That store made a lot of money on replacement filter lids.  On all of the Haven models you can sit on top of our filter area with not problems because it is part of the acrylic and fiberglass structured shell.
All of our spas follow the ANSI/NSPI ASTM, UL and ETL, CE and TUV for safety.  We actually go way beyond the minimums.  For instance, most of our suction fittings are rated for 230 gallons per  minute and we use two on each second pump, as well as on the filter side we have way over kill for a safety reason.  The velocity of water per square inch is much less on the suctions if you use too large of  a fitting.  It costs more, but it will save lives, because nobody will be held by one of them, and hair is never drawn and held near the fittings.  I am a parent (grandparent now) and I feel that the ANSI standard is lacking and was written partially by stupid greedy people (I am not kidding.).  Our control system is modern with redundant safety shut-off's.  It will never have the pump stuck in the on position.    ( Never buy a modern spa with old fashioned air button controls that do not have safety shutdown timers on them. Click here to read control article)  The controls have automatic clean-out  on the second pump and blower at the start of the filter cycles to insure no yukky, stale, bacteria laden water in the plumbing.  If that water isn't purged daily it gets stale.
The ergonomics of the design incorporates flat areas to place cups and drinks.  As a spa lover, I find that you must have water or you will get dehydrated and feel tired if you don't drink water or Gator aid or juice or some drink to re-hydrate yourself..   Most Haven spas have a really nice area above the filter to put a tray and this makes a great serving area.  Rounded tops on the acrylic are antique and come from the really old days of spas, the same as filter lids.  The top area is nice to sit up on out of the water, since it is flat, it does not press into your bottom. If you wet test any spa sit up on the upper lip and tell me how comfortable it is.  I can't sit up on a rounded spa lip for more than a few seconds without pain. It will "pressure point your rear".  All of the convolutions on most spas are like wearing high heel shoes when you need to be wearing sneakers.  They are for design, not functional for relaxing.
All of the main jets are adjustable, the inserts are removable by the owners, and you can put in different jets in the same body without tools.  This makes our spa the most customizable for the spa owners.   The jet pressure is adjustable both up and down, by several controls.
We put in hand rails in our spas.  Most spa companies are eliminating them even though the ANSI says you need them for safety.  Only on the smallest spas do we not have them.  Hand rails by definition are round and you can wrap your fingers around them. The hand grips, molded into the shell on some spas, are not hand rails.
Since we have a warm air chamber in our spas, we can have a nice, very quiet,  air blower system and full turbo air.  This turbo air makes the jets stream much larger and give a great therapy effect.  It is similar to having a third speed on the water pumps.  All of our two or three pump spas have two speeds on each pump.  (Most spas will have the first pump at 2 speeds and cut costs on the second or third pump by making it one speed.)  It is only on our 4 pump spa that we have a 4th pump one speed. This is about to change as we are developing and up to five pump control box with 40 Ampere Relays.  Haven spas with the optional air injection, have the air injectors placed in the most effective positions and we use the 9 Hole air jets on many models that act like 9 individual air jets in one spot.  This option is $2000 now.   This causes the air to burst out and give a great pulsating massage.  We are the only spa company to take full advantage of the air blower system, without the extra energy cost of blowers that draw in cold air.  The blower uses the heat from the jet pumps to maintain warm air into the spa water. On the Super Custom Magnum spas we use two air pumps at 2 HP.  This is "killer massage".
All of the Haven Spas are designed to be easily repaired.  That sounds simple and you would think that all spas would do this, (modern cars don't do this) but it costs more to install the pumps in different places and individually bolt them down, rather than stick them all on a skid and drop them in for less expensive factory production.  All of the side panels are fully removable to get to the components.  This is very,( super)  much better for service.  Saves you a lot of labor charges on out of warranty repairs.  All of the components plug in, unbolt, unscrew to be repaired and most of the water joints can be repaired instead of replacing the parts. 
With all the refinements in design we have the quietest spas with full filtering and full powerful therapy you can get. If your spa is outside your bedroom you might hear, (if you are very young and have powerful hearing) a hum when it comes on to filter or heat: super quiet.  While the spas are on high speed, you hear water, not loud equipment sounds. The sound of a Haven Spa on full is "music to my ears". As an engineer I hear other spas and they sound like they are on self destruct mode...because they are.
The filters can't be any easier to access.  Programming can't be any easier.  Most models take 30 seconds to program the filter times and if you don't want to program it, that is fine.  It will function automatically.  It is important to be able to adjust the filter duration to match the use of the spa, so we make that available.  If a spa needs more filtering, we have that, less we have that.  If you are stuck with a tiny circ pump that is inadequate to begin with, you can't add additional filter times, only chemicals.
On our upgraded cover we feature a much higher level of safety for children with 8 locking tie-downs.   This makes it twice as hard for a toddler to gain access to the spa.  It also helps a great deal with high winds of up to 80 to 90 mph gusts.   You have to use a key to open them for safety around children.
Our Haven Wood steps are super strong as well.  We use 52 deck screws in the construction to insure that it never collapses under normal loads , even two or three people standing on it. (now priced at $350, but they are very nice) We offer several of the composite steps as well. Composite siding and steps are much more popular these days.
Our complete set of supplies is huge and is not a start up kit.  I don't believe in playing that game with customers.  Why not supply the spa with all the necessary chemicals?  If you want a starter kit, we have them.   I think we did one in the last 20 years.  We don't stock them.
If you can give me one, even one good reason to buy another brand, I would like to hear it.  Really! Please email me, I would love to hear about it.  jim@havenmade.com, 

We are proven to be the nicest and best hot tub company to deal with.  Our products have made a lot of spa sales people angry, but so what?  They being nasty on the net and making up false stories of Jim,  has never stopped smart people from getting what they want.  You need to see that we are making a huge impact on the spa industry.   If you really want to be satisfied, like Haven owners, then, it is obvious. You've got one choice.

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