People ask me to compare Haven Spas to other brands.  This is something that I don't like to do, because the only way to do it is with side by side comparisons and the consumer has to understand what these parts are all about.   Unless you actually study the spas you are looking into, you will never know what you are buying.  Due to our continued quest to make our spas perfect, the price of the Fallriver Gold has gone up. We have made several equipment upgrades and new higher cost plumbing.  READ

Sundance Cameo    VS         Haven Fallriver Gold, SS6XL model with Twin Master Massage
Specifications
*Sundance CameoTM, The highest priced model this size in their highest end
 series.

Sundance
              CameoThere are no large flat areas on the top lip of the CameoTM. It is uncomfortable to sit up on the edge of the spa. So they put in a high "cool down seat" that only one bather can use.  (If you want leg and calf therapy that is suburb you need to sit on the side of the haven Fallriver lounger and put your feet down in front of the Master Massage.   Or you can sit above the "six jet seat" and get awesome massage that way.) 
HavenSpas FallriverTM Gold 2014 Model
The highest priced model similar size to CameoTM,  in our "standard" spas.  We don't copare the Sundance CameoTM to our highest end models.
Sundance Review

When everybody else is copying each other and cutting costs to compete in a very skinny market today, we continue with high end products with no real competition.  Unlike others who are nearly the same products being made in different brands and shapes, we simply follow engineering standards and don't follow any marketing schemes of pretty brochures and fancy names for exclusive parts.

We have been doing this "work horse" design  for over 17 years and the proof is in the land fills across the country and Haven Spas have the highest resale of any brand.
My sons who both have independent spa repair businesses told me that I don't have to make our Haven Spas so good.  We could reduce the quality quite a bit and still have a far superior product. They repair all brands.

In some ways HavenSpas is not promoting service work for the guys that I personally can relate to. We leave that for the other brands.  After leaving California and my high tech jobs out there, I moved to Boulder Co and started working in service.

When we do get service calls on our Haven Spas and I ask the service technician what they think of the spa, words like, "high end", "quality", "obviously well designed" come from them. That is the best compliment I can get for what I design and build.
Comparative Comment:
The Fallriver is roomier and more open.  This comes from using well known design features and less "artsy look".  It is function first then appearance next.  It feels a lot bigger than the CameoTM with less protrusions in the way for moving about the spa.  The Fallriver design is for humans to sit in comfortably,  without confining seats and confusing detrimental controls. Haven Spas are much easier to use; turn on the pumps and turbo and use it.  No extra valves to figure out and no waiting for therapy.  Full sized jets in the Fallriver seat backs.

True Story: I had a lady come in to wet test and I was so busy I could not stay with her.  I showed her quickly how to turn it on and I left to finish with another customer.  When I came back she said how easy it was to get the jets turned on in the seat she was sitting in.  She had just wet tested another brand and told me;  "I could never figure out how to get the jets on full in any seat I was sitting in."

Haven Spas have many places to sit up out of the water and "cool down". The filter area is very strong and so is the collar area for sitting up, but you can sit up on the edge nicely on the flat upper edges. Rounded tops my look good to some, but they are useless to bathers. They are ergonomic "nightmares"


 Too many bullet jets in the Cameo.  The Fallriver is a workhorse with a thick strong shell, designed to look good on the inside and outside.   Our spas are designed to last 35 years with at least 10 years of trouble free operation, before you need any repairs. That is why the 2014 models have a 7 year warranty parts and labor on the entire spa.

The "modern" Cameo is a faint ghost of the original spas in my expert opinion.  (The company has been bought and sold twice. )
Size inches 89x89x37.5 inches (226 cm x 226 cm x 95 cm) 91x91x36 (230 cm x 230 cm x 90 cm)
Sundance has no neck or shoulder jets
Fallriver is larger more room. Cleaner, larger foot well with extremely powerful master massage jets. No tiny jets in the backs of the seats. With much stronger construction and amazing neck and shoulder blaster collar. Sundance has no above water neck jets that are wonderful.
Dry Weight
Sundance CameoTM 962 lbs (436 kg) Haven Fallriver 1010 LB
Fallriver is larger and weighs more even though it is not stuffed with foam to hold it together. This is because of a superior shell construction and frame that is better than any production spa made today. Our shells have 5 layers of fiberglass composites and we use high end resins from well respected European manufacturers.  The same resins are used in luxury yacht construction in Holland.  You cannot find a better made composite spa shell on the market. 
Cabinet Structure Construction and Insulation and energy consumption.
2x2 (1.5 x 1.5 net size 38mm x 38 mm) rather skimpy minimum sized frames, stuffed with foam in the Sundance CameoTM to keep it from falling down.  (Foam is part of the support for the shell and plumbing) The bottom of the thin shell is supported by cut PVC pipe and or plastic supports, and so are the seats. (Our Haven Spas shells have no supports under the seats, because they are strong.) This is by far the cheapest way to make a fiberglass backed shell as thin as you possibly can. The cabinet "skirt" is thin plastic composite. The equipment compartment on Sundance CameoTM is vented so it wastes a lot of energy. They must have air enter and exit the spa in summer or destroy the motors from heat.

Sundance vented cabinet
You can see, obviously,  the vented louvers on the side of the cabinet, wasting energy. Full foam spas must do this because the pump heat cannot (thermodynamics term) "sink" or absorbed into the shell. The foam blocks natural shell cooling.

As my mother used to say to me when I left the door open in winter: "What's the matter with you! Were you born in a barn?!!"

Full foam is a real problem for leaks.  You have to dig though masses of foam following the trail to the source.  It is very time consuming. We often tell people with full foam to dig it out themselves to save the $80 per hour to have a service tech do it. Once you find the leak then call for servive.

The "magic" chart on the Sundance shows $18.14 per month for 10 cents per KWH at 101 degrees in relatively warm climates with no bather use of the spa.  The advertising hides the details, like: Is the spa used? Is the spa in cold weather? From my understanding reading the CEC, it is 68 deg F average according to the standards of CEC.  The cover is never opened.


"Estimated monthly cost is based on CEC test protocol for standby power consumption only. Test results measured in a controlled environment based on a kilowatt rate per hour of $0.10. {sic Try to find a place today where electricity is 10 cents a Kilowatt hour! They all do the same things to project some energy efficiency, when they are using antique designs!}Local and future energy rates, local conditions and individual use will alter these estimated monthly costs.For complete CEC test protocol and results visithttp://www.energy.ca.gov" from the sundancespas.com site.

See if you can figue this mess out?
http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/2013rulemaking/documents/12-AAER-2G/comments/Portable_Electric_Spas_Final_CASE_Report_12-AAER-2G_2014-05-15_TN-73027.pdf

In subzero weather the Sundance CameoTM reports I have received are over $100 per month in the months of Jan and Feb in places like the Mountain towns of Colorado, Cheyne Wy, and Vermont. There are very few placed where electricity is 10 cents a KWH.  You could finance a Haven FallriverTM and pay for it with the energy savings alone!  If you were to use their, special "wrap" you get better results.

The Haven Spas shell is much stronger, thicker and heavier, on the Fallriver and the frames can support up to 60,000 LB of load. The main reason for this huge "over kill" is longevity. 
There are 12 vertical 94mmx44mm (3.7 inches x 1.73 inches); structural  framing lumber. The entire bottom is also framed in deeply pressure treated lumber 145x44 (5.70 inches x 1.73  inches) sides and 44x 69 mm cross members.  There is no stronger cabinet made in any production spa in the world. PERIOD!  The shell is properly made to support water.  It is made of 5 layers of fiberglass composite with hard bonding agents (not available in the USA. In Holland they build boats and have the most expensive yacht companies there). Water weighs 8.33 LB per gallon, so it is 3,665 LB of water (live load). Think about it! We do not use any supports under the seats. This is the only way to increase energy efficiency, by removing any interference to the DAITTM insulation.
The cabinet skirt on Haven Spas is 21 mm thick (.826 inches) This is a very thick laminated wood  and composites with extreme, 10 year warranty on the cabinet.  The individual cabinet "doors" on the Fallriver, weigh at 35 KG or 77.1618 LBs each!. It is not intended for any owner to open this cabinet, unless they want to see how wonderfully it is constructed and show it off to their friends.
The cabinets are sealed shut air tight with no openings except at the bottom where the motors are.  We use a rubber seal to keep all cold air out of the cabinet (similar to a refrigerator of freezer seal)  and to force the heat from equipment into the spa water.  No other company does this.
We guarantee 4.5 KWH per day in WINTER, standby by use at  and average of 10 deg C average. This is using a full sized 90L frame motor doing the filtering. This is 20% lower than the closest competition in the EU, Hot Spring spas with a smaller spa, less liters,very tiny circulation pump, and lower spa water volume by 100 gallons, and lower temp setting temperature and higher outside temperature.

Our tests were in WINTER months, because we are not concerned about warm weather, and we don't like the averaging idea of most spas. 
 
And it is not objectively possible, from empirical evidence,  to find a better designed product in today's market. If you can find one, please point it out to us and we will compare it. 

So under exactly the same conditions as the Sundance CameoTM "test"
The Fallriver is at $13.15 per month for standby power use to maintain 101 degrees. 

The energy use charts are the most misleading information on most spas. They mix in a lot of variables so that you have no clue what it means.  And you will never see them post the exact conditions of the test.

If there is any doubts about the thermal design against full foam, the testing has already been performed by University of Arizona and University of Ca.  The thermally closed design always wins.


The construction of the Haven Spas is scientifically superior to any brand of spas made today.  Haven Spas Engineering and construction has no competition.

"It is pure ignorance (or limited funds) to purchase another brand of spa." James Arjuna

If you can't afford a Haven Spa, you can't afford any spa.  Over the 30 years life expectancy it will outlast Sundance by 3 times with one set of major repairs, and still has better theapy than spas made today. 

Our 17 year old spas still have better massage than the modern versions of Sundance spas.  This is a scientific fact, and I can show you one of our old models right here in Broomfield Colorado.
We have always been about 20 years ahead in our designs for spas.

And have never lost a wet test to Sundance.   The therapy of HavenSpas is simply superior because we use the same type of therapy design in our medical spas.

We use a completely sealed cabinet and the owners have NO reason to open it for 7 years at least.  Only Electricians when it is wired or if you ever need a service call.  These are extremely solid doors and they weigh about 60Lbs each.  This is our fully durable cabinet that withstands all that the weather can give it.
The seal must be maintained in order to have the amazing energy savings on our spas.  It is where we save you the most money.

For the safety of children we never have a door that can be opened easily. There is 230/240 V of wiring inside of spas and NEVER will any child be exposed to that with an easy open door in a Haven Spa. 


Insulation
35 Year old antique Full Foam in the *Sundance CameoTM with huge vents that waste energy.  One of the cheapest way to insulate there is. The next cheapest is open cabinet with no foam or tiny bits of foam on the shell.  Filling the cabinet with foam is stupid in our modern times.

Don't forget the cost to dig out that foam when it leaks. Often people will get a quote for a small leak from $600 to over $2000 in fully foamed in poorly insulated spas.
Modern Thermal ClosedTM insulation with warm air barrier insulation. Closed cabinet that recycles the energy back into the spa water. We seal the cabinet with rubber seals, like a freezer to stop all warm air from exiting the cabinet. Each panel door is 21 mm thick and weighs at over 70 LB's on this spa. It is made of high density composites with a 10 year warranty from the manufacturer. The problem for our American customers is warranty shipping new panels from Holland.  We have never had to do that and never expect to.

Try to imagine what our system of closed room insulation is like.  We put the shell in a warm room with the outer walls completely insulate in 11 layers of warm air foil-foam-foil- dead air- foil hard high density foam board foil- dead air - foil-foam-foil (space age thermal insulation) and then we have another warm air chamber then the shell.  The shell is coated with a IR (infrared) absorbing coating as part of the resins.  This coating forces the heat from the equipment into the spa water by the laws of physics.  There is nothing like this to compare with and it is VERY expensive to do this. It is both expensive in materials and in labor. It takes nearly 8 hours of hand labor working fast,  to cut and fit all this material. It takes another hour to seal the upper spa shell to the frame. It takes another 1.5 hours to seal all the corners. (Other spa makers, tell me I am nuts for doing this. Except for one thing: we tested this with extreme conditions and for a whole winter with many testing probes on and in the spa.)
The outside relative humidity was 78% on average and the inside cabinet RH was 19%.. This causes a dry air chamber and any thermal engineer knows that dry air has very little heat transfer compared to "wet foam" as found in most spas.  The cabinet is truly sealed now.  If we ever have a leak there is no digging in foam to find it.
Why are HavenSpas so low priced for this level of quality?  We are the factory, we sell only factory direct custom built to each customer.

Here is a video of our factory in Holland.  That "thing in the box" that Martyn is showing is our energy meter we offer with our spas. It tells the whole story directly to you the customer in actual numbers on cost to own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn-VyWqMVyw


The insulation used on Sundance is a antique in this day and age. Haven Spas Insulation
We have the documented lowest energy consumption of any spa.
We guarantee 4.5 KWH/day in standby ambient 10 degrees C or less. year round average use of the spa. That is less than 1/3 the cost for electricity over the Sundance  in winter in  Colorado or Wyoming or Montana. There have been other tests done in Wyoming showing the same thing.
Filled weight
4572 LB
4704 LB

Water Capacity (avg. fill)
445
440
*Sundance CameoTM is about the same.  The Fallriver has more defined seating that varies from super deep to high for cooler seating.  The lounge is better in the Fallriver for anti flotation, because of the ergonomics of the shape and the water depth maximum of 23 inches.  Haven Spas are noted for having the best "ergonomic" anti floating lounges.
Haven has more usable seats. The seats all have useable therapy.  There are six therapy seats in the Fallriver and four in the CameoTM. Go look!
Water Pump
(Water Delivery)
2 ea. ONE SPEED "TheraMax"
2-inch intake and 2 inch outlets. Old fashioned restrictive suctions. (No water flow PSI  specifications.  From research it is 160 GPM at 17 PSI. Please correct this if you know.) List price $421.42
Total water flow ;  320 Gallons per minute, and the heat energy is wasted out the vents.

The CameoTM uses diverter valves to fool people into thinking they have more therapy than in reality.

Read testimonial

Read all the Testimonials

More Testimonials

One speed pumps are cheaper and cost way less to manufacture. They are OK for some situations, but in spas we prefer two speeds for ultimate control.

There is no "Turbo Air" therapy in *Sundance CameoTM.

This is a great loss for consumers. 
2 ea. TWO SPEED , WW 3 HP Executive with 2.5 inch intake and 2 inch out lets. 
Water Flow at 170 each pump GPM at 17 PSI. List price $654.50 and  each.

Plus 1 each one speed 3 HP for the twin Master Jets.  160 GPM List $527.66
Total water flow available;   500 Gallons per minute. That is real therapy. And the heat energy is put back in the water.

Read About our Haven Plumbing
The Fallriver has higher quality equipment with better more well known motors for longevity.  We use stainless steel motor shafts to stop rusting; the most common failure of spa motors today.   And the Fallriver has larger way over sized, super clean "suction side" plumbing for better water flow and pressure curve than the "Thera Max" pumps.  The CameoTM has single speed water pumps, so the owners do not have the ability to have low speed light therapy.  There are 6 levels of intensity of therapy in the Haven Spas with just the speeds of the jet pumps and the use of air and turbo air.  In the Cameo, there is two levels. ( Considering how expensive the Cameo is, why would anybody buy one over the Fallriver?) There is no Turbo Air or extreme air boost in Cameo.
Therapy Pump Ratings: 
Pump 1


Pump 2

Pump 3


Circ Pump

1- speed 2.5 HP Continuous


1-speed 2.5 HP Continuous


NONE


  Mediumframe quality pump these days. 

The excessive use of diverter valves is needed to run with less horsepower and standard restrictive plumbing designs.

2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous
4 BHP

2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous, 4 BHP



1 speed, 3 HP Continuous.
4 BHP for twin Power Foot Massage Jets

Pluss  turbo air boost on the therapy jets.

Pump One on low speed does the filtering, ozone and heating. Does double duty as both circ pump and therapy pump.
More HP using the same amps with the Haven, according to research.  Special controls to run the three jet pumps plus blower and lights. The Haven control system adjusts the total amps as use conditions change. Sundance uses 48 frame motors and Haven uses 90 European frame motors by a much higher quality motor manufacture. Our motors have stainless steel shafts to stop corrosion in the most common location we find it in standard USA spas.
Total Water Jets
54

Most of the *Sundance CameoTM jets are smaller than the the FallriverTM. Many spa companies use tiny jets to increase the jet count but it decreases therapy.  Then in order to use the smaller HP water pumps they use diverter valves.


39 + Two 14 orifice Master Massage = 67


When people come into our showroom after testing the Cameo in Holland, they tell us that our ONE pump Fallriver with medium jets has better usable therapy than the two pump Cameo. Of course this is with 50 HZ.  Our 16 Amp 230V 50HZ spa is more powerful in therapy than the Cameo two pump.  This is because in Europe you need to design the plumbing with no restrictions as is physically (laws of physics) possible and we use Turbo Boosted water jets.  That is what we do.  Our American customers benefit from this.  In Europe a common problem is the total house power available is 30AMP 230V.  So to have therapy you have to design and test the spas for those conditions. (Not try to put in weaker pumps and send them to Europe.)
The results is WAY over-sized and super clean plumbing to get every speck of power out of the pumps.  You get the results of this engineering in the USA now from us.  Only we use the 4 HP maximum pumps now, because the 5 HP is a waste of energy now.

If you like small jets on your back, then great. To me, they are only good on neck jets, leg jets and in very specific trigger points of your back.  If you want that then order a Fallriver with your specific jet needs.  Haven Spas are not cookie cutter spas that you can only get one way. Every spa is custom made to order. Each spa travels the factory with a design book with details right down to the smallest parts.

*Sundance CameoTM "exclusive jets" (sell for more with less features,,the "corporate" way.) that do not have bearings, so they don't have an rotating large jets at all.  They are the only company that does not offer rotating large jets.  It is for economic, cost cutting (mostly warranty), reasons and not having to deal with bearings.  Haven Jet Bearings work just fine and give a far superior massage that pulses and rotates.  We use the Standard WaterWay jets which are proven to be reliable.

When Edward R Murrow was interviewing Carl Sandburg in the 1950's he asked Carl ( a poet who is well known for his appreciation of equality for all humans.)
"What is the worst word in the English language?"

Carl Sandburg said:  "exclusive" is the worst, ugliest word in the English language.

In all connotations it means you are "restricted" "limited" "reduced" "screwed" and all meanings are bad for anyone who is "excluded".

In this case you are excluded from buying parts at a decent price. 

For some unknown reason this really "ugly" word is considered to be "good" in advertising.  What does that tell you about modern advertising?
Above Water Neck and Shoulder Jets
ZERO NADA ZILCH
NONE  Nothing. 


4 MEDIUM ADJUSTABLE. These "neck blasters" are awesome for computer neck or any form of upper neck strain.  (We have an optional "Super Neck Blaster" system with a 1.5 inch feed to three extremely powerful neck jets and two powerful shoulder jets that hit in two of the most critical "trigger massage points" on the human body. If you know Polarity Massage, or Deep Tissue therapy massage or Acupressure, you would know this is a major set of trigger points.
(I was a trained Polarity Therapist in California in the 1980's.) 
Sundance lacks the ability to vacuum form with "reverse molding", and no possible above water jets or "neck collar" that gives that deep upper muscle massage.  If you look at their shells all of the angles lean outward towards the top so the mold slips out easily and no mold blocks are needed.  It simply costs more to have a human being to operate the reverse molding blocks.  (hint: it is all about sales, money and not about building the best massage therapy spa.)

Sundance, apparently from observation,  needs to save money on labor.  Automation is needed to make profits in a "modern" corporation with today's extremely costly overhead needed.  (Like lawyers, advertising people, sales people, sales representatives, technical help people, IT people, website builders, dealers, and a huge glut of wages and overhead. And profits are needed for the owners. )  It costs money to have mold blocks removed by hand by  human beings; the only way you can do this. The above water "collar" on Haven Spas, is simply the best and it keeps the spray contained.  I can't imagine owning a spa without these neck blasters.  We also hate loose filter lids after I watched a woman break a bone in her leg from leaning on one in a showroom of a well known brand.  To make a solid safe filter housing requires a mold block and that has to be hand installed and removed each time the spa shell is molded.  HavenSpas have a lot of modern "reverse molding" and that is the "state of the art in spa shells". Our lounger has a reverse molded side edge as well.  This allows for a  larger foot well and recesses the Master Massage jets back so they are not tripped on.
Leg Jets In the Lounger
They do have leg jets in the lounger.  And looks like good foot jets. No turbo air jets.
Six Water with turbo air jets.

Diabetics NEED leg jet massage in order to increase circulation in legs. As a diabetic I know what the cause is.  Diabetics have constricted capillaries from blood sugars causing the reduced surface area of capillaries opening. Capillaries swell from irritation of sugar on the walls of them.  Capillaries are so small to begin with and reducing them causes "back pressure" and reduced return blood flow. Poor cell health results and can cause bad skin and weak muscles.  Diabetics will often have terribly "itchy legs" after a soak because the blood is dying to move and "scratching and rubbing" is needed to help the blood to flow.  It is a horrible sensation to have an itch so deep that nothing can help it. Strong water leg massage with Haven Spas does the trick!
If you are over 50 years old because of age, you need help with leg blood flow as well.
Obviously, we think more in terms of actual therapy in our products.  (It is because the designer of Haven, likes leg massage and was a trained ALIVE Polarity Therapist, based on Dr Randolph Stone.) Because of the anti float of our lounges, along with the air and water jets, we get full leg massage and very little floating.  The air breaks up the water buoyancy in Haven Spas.

(Side note: We have a new 1Person spa with "boot like" leg recesses using nearly 40 jets on the legs and feet.  It is only for medical practitioners now.)
Captains Chair Therapy
There is no "Captains Chair" in the *Sundance CameoTM. Looks like four medium jets and two upper jets in one seat with two air injectors. The other seat has a bunch of small jets, and tiny bullet jets jets. There are only 4  therapy seats in the Cameo.
10 water jets. We Have 4 large full size spinning and pulsatign jets, 2 Medium, with the 4 neck and shoulder jets.   There is no "fair"  comparison with this seat and the *Sundance CameoTM.
The base jet in this seat of the Fallriver is a 1 inch whirlpool jet.  This gives maximum lower back massage. There is no other spa company who does this.
There are 6 therapy seats in the Fallriver.
The "Captain's Chair" is the number one hot seat in all of our models.  It is designed with the maximum water flow to achieve powerful jet therapy.  There is always an array of three jets across the upper shoulder area and mid back plus lower back jets.  Plus the pumps run on 6 different levels of therapy with the Low speed, High Speed, Along turbo air on low speed or high speed.  CameoTM does not have "turbo air"
And it does not have two speed jet pumps.
The only "complaint" we've gotten was from someone concerned that the therapy was too strong (after owning a much weaker spa).  He later changed his mind after realizing the benefits for over a month. This Fallriver "does the job" that other spas say they do.
There are no spas currently made today even similar in therapy to HavenSpas.
Six Jet Seat
Sundance has a seat with a bunch of cheaper small jets and  bullet jets, and they give it a fancy name "AccusageTM".  Most humans after testing the Haven Spas seem to dislike that seat, and prefer larger rotational jets on the back.  If you put full power on those jets, by directing one pump into that seat, it feels like being poked with a bunch of pencils. So, most people lean away from them to get a better feeling.  Go try this seat and tell me how you like it.
Two upper medium poly storm jets  jets and two mini storm jets, then two medium poly storm jets a the bottom.  This "six jet seat" is common throughout the Haven Line of spas because it gives superior therapy and you can pivot to get good side therapy and hip therapy. No bullet jets in the six jet seat. (You can order an upgrade to use all Power Storm jets in every seat they fit, for $560.)
The Haven FallriverTM is superior in all ways to the CameoTM in therapy and in jet use. The Cameo uses  a lot of sales scripting to sell a bunch of small jets.  Whenever you see a full page in a brochure dedicated to a design feature, in a spa brochure, you can rest assured that it is a sales pitch on some "exclusive" idea they try to keep as theirs.  They are "selling you on something that is really profitable" or is some "exclusive thing" they do to give the idea that "only our spas have thus and such therapy". All spas feel good to consumers.  Only HavenSpasTM  have real powerful full massage therapy.
Whirlpool Jets
5 each, medium orifice.  It's all good if you like them.
We don't like whirlpool jets on feet or up on the wall where they do no good and can't be used easily on the back, so we don't use them as traditional whirlpool.  It is a good jet for a lower back, so we use it in the "power jet" in our Fallriver (options) or SE and Super Custom, but only on the lower back.  

We did a survey of our hot tub owner's (we sold a different brand with diverted whirlpool jets) over a 8 year period and asked them what jets they don't use much.  80% said the "whirlpool". Those who used them would stand over them or try to position themselves with their lower back on them to use them.  So, obviously we listened and we took them off the Haven Spas as a traditional jet and put them where they could do good.  Instead of having to "try" to position oneself in front of them, all you do is sit down and turn on the best low back therapy there is.

 You can get an optional "Power Jet" in the lower back of the captains chair for additional money.
Whirlpool jets are not really very expensive to buy and install.  They have no moving parts and are normally not adjustable.  The Whirlpool idea was touted in the 1950's and 1960's as the latest technology for bath tubs.  Hmm? Isn't this 2014 with a lot of human research since then?

The original idea of the "whirl pool" jet was to move the water around so that the warmer water touched your skin. If you set in still water the water directly on your skin cools if you move your body you will experience increase in warmth.

This is not needed, now with all the jets we have, but taking this WP idea to the maximum use for therapy is what we do.
Master Massage Jets
Sundance has no Master Massage jets, because they use an exclusive brand of jets.
Two Huge Master Massage jets with a total of 28 jet orifices outlets.  Each jet runs at 80 GPM (gallons per minute)
The twin Master Massage jets are the best foot and leg jet therapy that I have ever experienced. This is one of the reasons why Haven Spas have never lost a wet test against the CameoTM.   We have dropped  the use of other jets for feet (Volcano, and Whirlpool), because they just don't do the job.
The Master Massage jets are optional, but if we are trying to compare the Cameo to one of our products, in features and price we put the option on to bring our price up to still destroys the  Cameo in a wet test.
Air Jets or Air Injectors
6 air injectors only
1.5 HP air pump. It looks like Sundacne uses the same brand of air blower that we do, but doesn't seem to know how to use it or they can't without destroying energy efficiency.  In order to use a blower with energy efficiency, you must not allow it to draw in any cold air from the outside during use.  That is what we do with the Haven DAITTM system.  By the way you can purchase all of the DAIT parts from any Electronics store. The design is "exclusive" the parts are not.
We are only using the Turbo Air on this model, because it is the feature that all people want when they test our Haven Spas and do comparisons.  Our "turbo air" blower is extremely quiet because of our sound proofing of the latest cabinets.  In our "wet tests" people who have had to listen to sales pitches against the "blower" and ask if we can take it out (of course we can) before the wet test will, after the wet test insist on having it.  It is awesome!
The Cameo does not take advantage of modern air therapy.  They use the blower "sort of".  Haven places the air power into the water jets,  strategically to give a pulsating massage up your back in the seats, and full power to the leg a jets with "turbo air" to all jets and the leg jets.  This is SO MUCH BETTER!  And in order to use it properly in winter, all you do is run the jet pumps first to warm the air in the cabinet, if you are a fanatic about energy.
Exclusive Parts
All of the Sundance parts are exclusive and overpriced for no apparent quality reason other than making more money on selling parts.
All the Haven Parts are not exclusive and are better made parts all the way around. We use a European motor with stainless steel shaft to stop rusting. The most common cause for motor failure in spas is rusted motor shaft. We use one of the oldest digital control companies in the spa industry, because of known reliability.  We tested every brand of air blower on the market with severe testing and chose the best one.
Whenever a spa company contracts with a jet company for parts, they get them for the "best price".  Whoever gets the bid, is going to cut the parts as much as they can to try and get a small profit.  We much prefer higher quality parts and not "exclusive" parts.
Diverter Valves
Sundance Has Diverter Disease.  They have two of them. One on each pump.  Finally they figured out to allow other jets to run and not put the diverter as the only thing the jet pumps "see". On Haven Spas we only do this on our cheapest models, not on the most expensive.
We know that using Diverters, diminishes the function of the spa.
Who the heck wants to wait for jets, or worse to have only part of the seat function?  We plumb the jet pumps to match the jets and use better pumps. Only on our cheapest models do we use a diverter, but it is done according to the manufacturer's specification and then reduced the water flow 50% to increase longevity and reduce the restriction to water flow,  and ease of use.  You can turn our diverter handles with one finger with the jet pump on full speed.
Diverter Valves used directly on the pump outlets are bad, very very bad and are a way to fool people.  When you walk into a spa store and see spas with 54 jets, but you can't run all of them at the same time, get OUT OF THE STORE and head over to our web site and to our Haven Spa store, where you can get a real hot tub, with out the nonsense.
Control Boxes
Aluminum
Metal Steel or Aluminum,
We use metal  aluminum or steel and we do not use exclusive parts, so that  when time comes to repair, you save on parts.  Plus the control system is stronger in the Haven. We use larger relays to run all the higher amp equipment.
Filter
MicroClean  filtration system.
Standard not exclusive filter cartridge and filter parts. There is no reason, in our opinion, to increase consumer cost for filters.  The standard 5 to 50 micron filters are good.
Sundance tries to sell you on expensive filters that are a waste of time and money.  If you take care of your water you don't need to have any special filters.  They want you on a system that costs about 6 times what you need to pay.
Lighting
Two LED lights standard
Two LED lights standard.
One in the light lens and one in the waterfall.
Filter Lid
Sundance has a loose filter lid.
We have no loose filter lids
I hate loose filter lids, because of dealing with them..  It is ridiculous to have them on a portable spa.
Head Rests
Three
Three
We like head rests.
Stereo
Optional $1400  for pop up speakers.
Optional $1245 for  2 high end speakers are with sub woofer and  ipod iphone direct  bay and waterproof remote.  We use outside cabinet mounted multirange, high end, almost audiophile level of quality.
Like everything else on Sundance too much money for too little.
Electrical Requirements
60 HZ 30 A, 50A, or 60A
60 HZ 50/60 AMPs, Also European model with Three Phase 20 amps 380-400 V with neutral and ground.  In Europe, we are the experts on using three phase power.
The Haven Fallriver Gold is a stronger therapy machine with more expensive equipment.
Seats
5 to 6 Adults.

The top rail is impossible to set up on the edge of the shell to get out of the water and cool off. The filter lid is not capable of using as a seat and it is dangerous.
Seats 5 to 6 Adults with more room.

On Haven Spas we have larger upper flat areas on the top edge of the shell, so you can set up out of the water comfortably to cool down or just set there and have a chat. Without the loose filter lid you can set over the filter area very nicely.  This is a feature most spas do not have.
The foot well in the Fallriver is larger and better for comfort.  The whole Fallriver  spa is bigger and still costs less..
The filter housing on Sundance is huge and wastes a lot of space.
MSRP
$15,999
Sale price after car dealership type of negotiation.

$12,560
$18,980

Our everyday Sale price;

$14,988
The Fallriver Gold  is about Three times (3x) more spa for a little more money. (Hint. If the Cameo is sold for 10 k the Fallriver is worth 28K) Better made, stronger cabinet, stronger motors, stronger control system, better made shell.  The Fallriver is in our Standard spas and the Cameo is in the "highest end" of Sundance.  There is your Clue.  We only have smart shopper buy Haven Spas.
(Please don't compare our SC or SE or Paramount or Vista spas against this lower quality product.)
Warranty




This is posted under the fair comparative FTC regulations.  Havenmade has no association with "Sundance"Spas".
Sundance 
and CameoTM are a trademark of Sundance Spas in Chino Ca.  Everything posted is based on the best scientific evidence available at the time.