Specifications
|
Sundance Cameo, The highest
priced model this size in their highest end
series.
|
Haven Fallriver Gold
The highest priced model similar size to Cameo, in our
"low end
spas"
|
Comparative Comment
The Fallriver is roomier and more open. It feels a lot
bigger than the Cameo. The Fallriver design is for
humans to sit in
comfortably, without confining seats and confusing
detrimental
controls. Haven Spas are much easier to use. Full
sized jets in the Fallriver seat backs. Too many bullet jets in the
Cameo. The
Fallriver is a workhorse with a thick strong shell, designed
to look good on the inside and outside. Our spas are
designed to last 25 years with at
least 10 years of trouble free operation, before you need
any repairs.
The "modern" Cameo is a faint gost of the original
spas. (The company has been bought and sold twice and
it ain't
pretty what happend. )
|
| Size inches |
89x89x37.5 |
92x92x38
|
Fallriver is larger more
room.
Cleaner, larger foot well with extremely powerful master
massage jets.
No tiny jets in the backs of the seats. With much stronger
construction
and amazing neck and shoulder blaster collar. Sundance has
no above
water neck jets that are wonderful.
|
Dry Weight
|
Sundance Cameo 861 LB
|
Haven Fallriver 1010 LB
|
Fallriver is larger and
weighs
more even though it is not stuffed with foam to hold it
together.
|
Cabinet Construction
|
2x2 frames, stuffed with foam
in
the Sundance Cameo to
keep it from falling down. The bottom of the shell is
supported
by cut PVC pipe and so are the seats. This is by far the
cheapest way
to make a fiberglass backed shell as thin as you possibly
can. The
cabinet "skirt" is cheap thin plastic. The equipment
compartment on
Sundance is vented so it wastes a lot of energy.
|
The shell is much stronger,
thicker and heavier, on
the Fallriver and the frames can support up to 40,000 LB of
load.
There are 12 vertical 2x4 house framing lumber. The entire
bottom is
also framed in pressure treated lumber 2x6 . The shell is
properly made to
support water. Water weighs 8.33 LB per gallon, so it
is 3,665
LB of water. Think about it!
The cabinet skirt on Haven Spas is 3/4 of an inch thick
laminated wood
with extreme, 15 year coatings. The cabinets are sealed shut
air tight.
|
The construction of the
Haven
Spas is superior to any brand of spas made
today. Haven Spas
Engineering and
construction has no competition.
|
Insulation
|
30 Year old antique Full Foam
in
the Sundance Cameo
with huge vents that waste energy. One of the cheapest
way to
insulate there is.
|
Modern Thermal
Closed insulation
with
warm
air barrier insulation. Closed cabinet that recycles the
energy back into the spa water. We seal the cabinet with
rubber seals,
like a freezer to stop all warm air from exiting the cabinet
|
The insulation used on
Sundance
is a joke in this day and age. Haven
Spas Insulation
We have the documented lowest energy consumption of any spa.
We guarantee 4.5 KWH/day in standby ambient 50 degrees or
less year
round average use of the spa. That is less than 1/3 the cost
for
electricity over the Sundance.
|
Filled weight
|
4572 LB
|
4704 LB
|
|
Water Capacity (avg. fill)
|
445
|
440
|
Sundance Cameo is about the
same. The Fallriver has more defined seating that
varies from
super deep to
high for cooler seating. The lounge is better in the
Fallriver
for anti flotation, because of the ergonomics of the shape
and the
water depth maximum of 23 inches. Haven Spas are noted
for having
the best anti floating
lounges.
|
Water Pump
(Water Delivery)
|
2 ea. ONE SPEED "TheraMax"
2-inch intake and 2 inch outlets. Old fashioned restrictive
suctions.
(No water flow PSI
specifications. From research it is 160 GPM at 17 PSI.
Please
correct this if you know.) List price $421.42
Total water flow ; 320 Gallons per minute, and the
heat energy is
wasted out the vents.
The Cameo uses diverter valves
to
fool people into thinking they have therapy.
Read testimonial
Read all the Testimonials
More Testimonials
|
2 ea. TWO SPEED , WW 3
HP Executive with 2.5
inch intake and 2 inch out lets.
Water Flow at 170 each pump GPM at 17 PSI. List price
$654.50 and
each.
Plus 1 each one
speed 3 HP for the
twin Master Jets.
160 GPM List $527.66
Total water flow available; 500 Gallons per minute.
That is real
therapy. And the heat energy is put back in the water.
Read About our Haven
Plumbing
|
The Fallriver has higher
quality equipment with better more well known motors for
longevity. And the Fallriver has larger way oversized,
super
clean "suction side" plumbing
for
better water flow and pressure curve than the "Thera Max"
pumps.
The Cameo has single speed water pumps, so the owners do not
have the
ability to have low speed light therapy. There are 6
levels of
intensity of therapy in the Haven Spas with just the speeds
of the jet
pumps and the use of air and turbo
air.
In the Cameo, there is
two levels. ( Considering how expensive the Cameo is, why
would anybody
buy one over the Fallriver?)
|
Therapy Pump Ratings:
Pump 1
Pump 2
Pump 3
Circ Pump
|
1- speed 2.5 HP Continuous
1-speed 2.5 HP Continuous
NONE
1/15 HP 48 frame?
|
2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous
4 BHP
2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous, 4 BHP
1 speed, 3 HP Continuous.
4 BHP for twin Power Foot Massage Jets
Pump One on low speed does the filtering, ozone and heating.
Does
double duty as both circ pump and therapy pump.
|
More HP using the same amps
with
the Haven, according to research. Special controls to
run the
three jet pumps plus blower and lights. The Haven control
system
adjusts the total amps as use conditions change. Sundance
uses 48
frame motors and Haven uses 56 frame motors by a much
higher
quality motor manufacture.
|
Total Water Jets
|
39
|
39 + Two Master Massage
|
Sundance uses "exclusive
jets"
that do not have bearings, so they don't have an rotating
large jets at
all. They are the only company that does not offer
rotating large
jets. It is for economic, cheap, reasons and not
having to deal
with
bearings. Haven Jet Bearings work just fine and give a
far
superior massage that pulses and rotates.
|
Above Water Neck and Shoulder
Jets
|
ZERO NADA ZILCH
NONE Nothing.
|
4 MEDIUM ADJUSTABLE
|
Sundance lacks the ability to
vacuum form with "reverse molding", and no possible above
water jets or
"neck collar" that gives that deep upper muscle
massage. It
simply
costs more to have a human being to operate the reverse
molding
blocks. (hint it is all about hype, sales, money and
not about
building a good spa.)
|
Leg Jets In the Lounger
|
Looks like four air jets
|
Six Water and four air jets
|
Obviously we think more in
terms
of actual therapy in our products. It is because the
designer of
Haven,
likes leg massage. Because of the anti float of our lounges,
along with
the air and water jets, we get full leg massage and very
little
floating. The air breaks up the water buoyancy in
Haven Spas.
|
Captains Chair Therapy
|
There is no "Captains Chair"
in
the Sundance cameo. Looks like four medium jets and two
upper jets in
one seat with two air injectors. The other seat has a bunch
of tiny bullet jets jets.
|
10 water jets. We Have 4
large
full size spinning and pulsatign jets, 2 Medium, with the 4
neck and
shoulder jets. There is no comparison with this
seat.
|
The "Captain's Chair" is the
number one hot seat in all of our models. It is
designed with the
maximum water flow to achieve powerful jet therapy.
There is
always an array of three jets across the upper shoulder area
and mid
back plus lower back jets. Plus the pumps run on 6
different
levels of therapy with the Low speed, High Speed, Along
turbo air on
low speed or high speed. Sundance does not have "turbo air"
And it does not have two speed jet pumps.
|
Six Jet Seat
|
Sundance has a seat with a
bunch
of cheap small jets and
bullet jets,
and
they
give it a fancy
name. Most humans after testing the Haven Spas seem to
dislike
that seat, and prefer real jets on the
back.
|
Two upper medium poly storm
jets jets and two mini storm jets, then two medium
poly storm
jets a the bottom. This "six jet seat" is common
throughout the
Haven Line of spas because it gives superior therapy and you
can pivot
to get good side therapy and hip therapy. No bullet jets in
the six jet
seat.
|
The Haven Fallriver is
superior in all ways to the Cameo in therapy and in jet use.
The Cameo
uses a lot of sales hype to sell a bunch of small
jets.
Whenever you see a full page in a brochure dedicated to a
design
feature, in a spa brochure, you can rest assured that it is
B.S.
and they are "selling you on something that is really cheap"
or is some
"exclusive thing" they do.
|
Whirlpool Jets
|
5 each, medium orifice.
|
We don't like whirlpool jets
on
feet or up on the wall where they do no good, so we don't
use
them. It is a good jet for a lower back, so we use it
in the
"power jet" in our SE and Super Custom, but only on the
lower
back. ( We did a survey of our hot tub owner's and asked
them what jets
they don't use much. 80% said the "whirlpool". So we
took them
off the Haven Spas.) You can get an optional "Power Jet" in
the lower
back of the captains chair for additional money.
|
Whirlpool jets are not very
expensive to buy and install. They have no moving
parts and are
not adjustable. The Whirlpool idea was touted in the
1950's and
1960's as the latest technology for bath tubs. Hmm?
|
Master Massage Jets
|
Sundance has no Master
Massage
jets, because they use a cheaper brand of jets.
|
Two Huge Master Massage jets
with a total of 28 jet orifices outlets. Each jet runs
at 80 GPM
(gallons per minute)
|
The twin Master Massage jets
are
the best foot and leg jet therapy that I have ever
experienced. This is
one of the reasons why Haven Spas have never lost a wet test
against
the Cameo. We have dropped the use of other
jets (Volcano,
and Whirlpool), because they just don't do the job.
The Master Massage jets are optional, but if we are trying
to compare
the Cameo to one of our products, in features and price we
put the
option on to bring our price up to still destroys the
Cameo in a
wet test.
|
Air Jets or Air Injectors
|
14 air injectors only
1.5 HP air pump. This is built in to the spa cabinet and is
fairly
difficult to access for repairs. There really is no
blower but a
blower motor mounted in side a chamber.
|
We are only using the Turbo
Air
on this model, because it is the feature that all people
want when they
test our Haven Spas and do comparisons. Our turbo air
blower is
extremely quiet because of our sound proofing of the latest
cabinets.
|
The Cameo does not take
advantage of modern air therapy. They use the blower
"sort
of". Haven places the air power into the water
jets,
strategically to give a pulsating
massage up your back in the seats, and full power to the leg
a jets
with turbo air to the leg jets. This is SO MUCH BETTER!
|
Exclusive Parts
|
All of the Sundance parts are
exclusive and overpriced for no reason other than making
more money.
|
All the Haven Parts are not
exclusive and are better made parts all the way around.
|
Whenever a spa company
contracts
with a jet company for parts, they get them cheap.
Whoever gets
the bid, is going to cut the parts as much as they can to
try and get a
small profit. That is why the diverter and air
control
handles on Sundance are so cheap, and the jets are so
cheaply
made. The standard quality parts cost more and are
readily
available at decent prices.
|
Diverter Valves
|
Sundance Has Diverter
Disease. They have two of them. One on each
pump.
Finally
they figured out to allow other jets to run and not put the
diverter as
the only thing the jet pumps "see".
|
We know that using Diverters,
diminishes the function of the spa.
Who the heck wants to wait for
jets, or
to have only part of the seat
function? We plumb the jet pumps to match the jets and
use better
pumps.
|
Diverter Valves used directly
on
the pump outlets are bad, very
very bad and are a way to fool people. When you walk
into a
spa store and see spas with 39 jets, but you can't run all
of them at
the same time, get OUT OF THE STORE and head over to our web
site and
to our Haven Spa store, where you can get a real hot tub,
with out the
nonsense.
|
Control Boxes
|
Aluminum
|
Metal Steel or Aluminum,
|
We
use metal aluminum or steel and we do not use
exclusive parts,
so that when time comes to repair, you save on
parts. Plus
the control system is stronger in the Haven. We use larger relays to run
all the
higher amp equipment.
|
Filter
|
MicroClean II filtration
system.
|
Standard not exclusive filter
cartridge and filter parts.
|
Sundance ties to sell you on
expensive filters that are a waste of
time. If you take care of your water you don't need to
have any
special filters. They want you on a system that costs
about 6
times what you need to pay.
|
Lighting
|
Two LED lights standard
|
Two LED lights standard.
|
One in the light lens and one
in
the waterfall.
|
Filter Lid
|
Sundance has a loose filter
lid.
|
We have no loose filter lids
|
I hate loose
filter
lids, because of dealing with them.. It is
ridiculous
to have them on a portable spa.
|
Head Rests
|
Three
|
Three
|
We like head rests.
|
Stereo
|
Optional $1400 for pop
up
speakers.
|
Optional $1245 for 4
Pop
up speakers are with sub
woofer and ipod iphone direct bay and waterproof
remote.
|
Like everything else on
Sundance
too much money for too little.
|
Electrical Requirements
|
60 HZ 30 A, 50A, or 60A
|
60 HZ 50/60 AMPs
|
The Haven Fallriver Gold is a
stronger therapy machine with more expensive equipment.
|
Seats
|
5 to 6 Adults.
The top rail is impossible to set up on the edge of the
shell to get
out of the water and cool off. The filter lid is not capable
of using
as a seat and it is dangerous.
|
Seats 5 to 6 Adults with more
room.
On Haven Spas we have larger upper flat areas on the top
edge of the
shell, so you can set up out of the water comfortably to
cool down or
just set there and have a chat. Witout the loose filter lid
you can set
over the filter area very nicely. This is a feature
most spas do
not have.
|
The foot well in the
Fallriver
is larger and better for comfort. The whole
Fallriver spa
is bigger and still costs less..
The filter housing on Sundance is huge and wastes a lot of
space.
|
MSRP
|
$12,999
Sale price after car dealership type of negotiation.
$10,560
|
$16,670
Our everyday Sale price;
$12,656.00
|
The Fallriver Gold is
about 2x
more spa for a little more money. (Hint. If the Cameo is
sold for 10 k
the
Fallriver is worth 20K) Better made, stronger cabinet,
stronger
motors, stronger control system, better made shell.
The Fallriver
is in our Standard spas and the Cameo is in the
"highest end" of Sundance. There is your Clue.
We only have
smart shopper buy Haven Spas.
(Please don't compare our SC or SE or Paramount or Vista
spas against
this lower quality product.)
|
