Specifications
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Sundance Cameo, The highest
priced model this size in their highest end
series.
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Haven Fallriver Gold
The highest priced model similar size to Cameo, in our "low end
spas".
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Comparative Comment
The Fallriver is roomier and not so convoluted. It feels a lot
bigger than the Cameo, becuase the design is for humans to sit in
comfortably, no for fancy brochures with confining seats and worthless
controls. The Fallriver is a workhorse, not a prissy gadget happy
marketing peice. Our spas are designed to last 20 years with at
least 10 years of trouble free operation, before you need any repairs.
Large corp spas are designed to get past the warranty and that is all.
The "modern" Cameo is an insult to the original Cameo.
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| Size inches |
89x89x37.5 |
92x92x38
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Fallriver is larger more room.
Cleaner, larger foot well with extremely powerful master massage jets.
No tiny jets in the backs of the seats. With much stronger constrution
and amazing neck and shouler blaster collar. Sundance has no above
water neck jets that are wonderful.
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Dry Weight
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Sundance Cameo 861 LB
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Haven Fallriver 881 LB
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Fallriver is larger and weighs
more even though it
is not stuffed with foam to hold it together.
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Cabinet Construction
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2x2 frames, stuffed with foam in
the Sundance Cameo to
keep it from falling down. The bottom of the shell is supported
by cut PVC pipe and so are the seats. This is by far the cheapest way
to make a fiberglass backed shell as thin as you possibly can.
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The shell is much stronger on
the Fallriver and the frames can support up to 40,000 LB of load.
There are 14 vertical 2x4 house framing lumber. The entire bottom is
also framed in pressure treated lumber. The shell is properly made to
support water. Water weighes 8.33 LB per gallon, so it is 3,665
LB of water. Think about it!
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The construction of the Haven
Spas is superior to any brand of spas made today, except for the
Phoenix spas, the people who build our basic spa for us.
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Insulation
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30 Year old antique Full Foam in
the Sundance Cameo
with huge vents that waste energy. One of the cheapest way to
insulate there is.
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Modern Thermal Closed insulation
with
warm air barrier insulation. Closed cabinet that recycles the
energy back into the spa water.
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The insulation used on Sundance
is a joke in this day and age.
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Filled weight
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4572 LB
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4504 LB
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Water Capacity (avg. fill)
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445
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440
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Sundance Cameo is about the
same. The Fallriver has more defined seating that varies from
super deep to
high for cooler seating. The lounge is better in the Fallriver
for anti flotation, because of the ergonomics of the shape and the
water depth maximum of 23 inches. Haven Spas are noted for having
the best anti floating lounges.
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Water Pump
(Water Delivery)
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2 ea. ONE SPEED "TheraMax"
2-inch intake and 2 inch outlets. (No water flow PSI
specifications. From research it is 160 GPM at 17 PSI. Please
correct this if you know.) LIst price $421.42
Total water flow ; 320 Gallons per minute, and the heat energy is
wasted out the vents.
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1 ea. TWO SPEED and 2 each One Speed, WW 3
HP Executive with 2.5
inch intake and 2 inch out lets.
Water Flow at 180 each pump GPM at 17 PSI. List price $654.50 and
each.
Plus 1 each one speed 3 HP for the twin Master Jets.
160 GPM List $453.66
Total water flow available; 520 Gallons per minute. That is real
therapy. And the heat energy is put back in the water.
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The Fallriver has higher
quality equipment with better more well known motors for
longevity. And the Fallriver has larger "suction side" plumbing
for
better water flow and pressure curve than the "Thera Max" pumps.
The Cameo has single speed water pumps, so the owners do not have the
ability to have low speed light therapy. There are 6 levels of
intensity of therapy in the Haven Spas with just the speeds of the jet
pumps and the use of air and turbo air. In the Cameo, there is
two levels. ( Considering how expensive the Cameo is, why would anybody
buy one over the Fallriver?)
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Therapy Pump Ratings:
Pump 1
Pump 2
Pump 3
Circ Pump
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1- speed 2.5 HP Continuous
1-speed 2.5 HP Continuous
NONE
1/15 HP 48 frame?
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2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous
4 BHP
2-speed 3.0 HP Continuous, 4 BHP
2 HP Continuous.
3 BHP
Pump One on low speed does the filtering, ozone and heating. Does
double duty as both circ pump and therapy pump.
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More HP using the same amps with
the Haven, according to research. Special controls to run the
three jet pumps plus blower and lights. The Haven control system
adjusts the total amps as use conditions change. Sundance uses 48
frame motors and Haven uses 56 frame motors by a much higher
quality motor manufacture.
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Total Water Jets
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39
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39 + Two Master Massage
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Sundance uses "exclusive jets"
that do not have bearings, so they don't have an rotating large jets at
all. They are the only company that does not offer rotating large
jets. It is for economic, cheap, reasons and not having to deal
with
bearings. Haven Jet Bearings work just fine and give a far
superior massage that pulses and rotates.
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Above Water Neck and Shoulder
Jets
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ZERO NADA ZILCH
NONE Nothing.
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4 MEDIUM ADJUSTABLE
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Sundance lacks the ability to
vacuum form with "reverse molding", and no possible above water jets or
"neck collar" that gives that deep upper muscle massage. It
simply
costs more to have a human being to operate the reverse molding
blocks. (hint it is all about hype, sales, money and not about
building a good spa.)
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Leg Jets In the Lounger
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Looks like four air jets
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Six Water and four air jets
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Obviously we think more in terms
of actual therapy in our products. It is because the designerof
Haven,
likes leg massage. Because of the anti float of our lounges, along with
the air and water jets, we get full leg massage and very little
floating. The air breaks up the water buoyancy.
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Captains Chair Therapy
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There is no "Captains Chair" in
the Sundance cameo. Looks like four medium jets and two upper jets in
one seat with two air injectors. The other seat has a bunch of tiny bullet jets jets.
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13 water jets and 3 Air jets.
This is the only model series (our lowest priced models) in which we
place a few bullet jets in the backs of the seats.. This model
has three and only three mixed in with medium and mini Storm
jets. This is the only model we have that compares to the Cameo
and it is in our lowest priced models.
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The "Captain's Chair" is the
number one hot seat in all of our models. It is designed with the
maximum water flow to achieve powerful jet therapy. There is
always an array of three jets across the upper shoulder area and mid
back plus lower back jets. Plus the pumps run on 12 different
levels of therapy with the Low speed, High Speed, Along turbo air on
low speed or high speed. Sundance does not have "turbo air"
And it does not have two speed jet pumps.
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Six Jet Seat
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Sundance has a seat with a bunch
of cheap small jets and bullet jets,
and
they give it a fancy
name. I personally dislike that seat, and prefer real jets on my
back. ( Jim's note:"I have tested this design and I don't like it much
at all. Bla therapy.")
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Two upper medium poly storm
jets jets and two mini storm jets, then two medium poly storm
jets a the bottom. This "six jet seat" is common throughout the
Haven Line of spas because it gives superior therapy and you can pivot
to get good side therapy and hip therapy. No bullet jets in the six jet
seat.
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The Haven Fallriver is
superior in all ways to the Cameo in therapy and in jet use. The Cameo
uses a lot of sales hype to sell a bunch of small jets.
Whenever you see a full page in a brochure dedicated to a design
feature, in a spa brochure, you can rest assured that it is B.S.
and they are "selling you on something that is really cheap" or is some
"exclusive thing" they do.
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Whirlpool Jets
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5 each, medium orifice.
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We don't like whirlpool jets on
feet or up on the wall where they do no good, so we don't use
them. It is a good jet for a lower back, so we use it in the
"power jet" in our SE and Super Custom, but only on the lower
back. ( We did a survey of our hot tub ower's and asked them what jets
they don't use much. 80% said the "whirlpool". So we took them
off the Haven Spas.
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Whirlpool jets are not very
expensive to buy and install. They have no moving parts and are
not adjustable. The Whirlpool idea was touted in the 1950's and
1960's as the latest technology for bath tubs. Hmm?
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Master Massage Jets
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Sundance has no Master Massage
jets, because they use a cheaper brand of jets.
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Two Huge Master Massage jets
with a total of 28 jet orifices outlets. Each jet runs at 80 GPM
(gallons per minute)
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The twin Master Massage jets are
the best foot and leg jet therapy that I have ever experienced. This is
one of the reasons why Haven Spas have never lost a wet test against
the Cameo. We have dropped the use of other jets (Volcano,
and Whirlpool), because they just don't do the job.
The Master Massage jets are optional, but if we are trying to compare
the Cameo to one of our products, in features and price we put the
option on to bring our price up to still be less than the Cameo.
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Air Jets or Air Injectors
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14 air injectors only
1.5 HP air pump. This is built in to the spa cabinet and is fairly
difficult to access for repairs. There really is no blower but a
blower motor mounted in side a chamber.
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18 each 9 hole air injector
jets, with full turbo air to the water
jets. 1.5 HP air pump. Separate air pump, easy to access
and repair, and commonly available. No exclusive parts.
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The Cameo does not take
advantage of modern air therapy. They use the blower "sort
of". Haven places the air jets strategically to give a pulsating
massage up your back in the seats, and full power to the leg air jets
and turbo air to the leg jets. This is SO MUCH BETTER! (I stole this design from
Hercules and it is really good.)
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Exclusive Parts
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All of the Sundance parts are
exclusive and overpriced for no reason other than making more money.
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All the Haven Parts are not
exclusive and are better made parts all the way around.
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Whenever a spa company contracts
with a jet company for parts, they get them cheap. Whoever gets
the bid, is going to cut the parts as much as they can to try and get a
small profit. That is why the diverter and air control
handles on Sundance are so cheap, and the jets are so cheaply
made. The standard quality parts cost more and are readily
available at decent prices.
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Diverter Valves
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Sundance Has Diverter
Disease. They have two of them. One on each pump.
Finally
they figured out to allow other jets to run and not put the diverter as
the only thing the jet pumps "see".
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We know that using Diverters,
diminishes the function of the spa.
Who the heck wants to wait for jets, or to have only part of the seat
function? We plumb the jet pumps to match the jets and use better
pumps.
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Diverter Valves are bad, very
very bad and are a way to fool people. When you walk into a
spa store and see spas with 39 jets, but you can't run all of them at
the same time, get OUT OF THE STORE and head over to our web site and
to our Haven Spa store, where you can get a real hot tub, with out the
nonsense.
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Control Boxes
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Aluminum
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Metal Steel or Aluminum,
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We
use metal aluimiuim or steel and we do not use exclusive parts,
so that when time comes to repair, you save on parts. Plus
the control system is stronger in the Haven.
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Filter
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MicroClean II filtration system.
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Standard not exclusive filter
cartridge and filter parts.
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Sundance ties to sell you on
expensive filters that are a waste of
time. If you take care of your water you don't need to have any
special filters. They want you on a system that costs about 6
times what you need to pay.
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Lighting
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Two LED lights standard
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Two LED lights standard.
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One in the light lens and one in
the waterfall.
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Filter Lid
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Sundance has a loose filter lid.
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We have no loose filter lids
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I hate loose
filter
lids, because of dealing with them.. It is ridiculous
to have them on a portable spa.
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Head Rests
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Three
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Three
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We like head rests.
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Stereo
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Optional $1400 for pop up
speakers.
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Optional $525 for solid speaker
mounts in the acrylic shell. 4 Pop up speakers are with sub
woofer is 825, same features, except for ipod direct bay.
You can still hook up the iPod.
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Like everything else on Sundance
too much money for too little.
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Electrical Requirements
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60 HZ 30 A, 50A, or 60A
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60 HZ 50/60 AMPs
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The Haven Fallriver Gold is a
stronger therapy machine with more expensive equipment.
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Seats
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5 to 6 Adults
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Seats 5 to 6 Adults with more
room.
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The foot well in the Fallriver
is larger and better for comfort. The whole Fallriver spa
is bigger and still costs less..
The filter housing on Sundance is huge and wastes a lot of space.
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MSRP
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$12,999
Sale price after car dealership type of negotiation.
$10,560
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$13,845
Our everyday Sale price;
$9415.00
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The Fallriver is about 1/3
more spa for less money. (Hint. If the Cameo is sold for 9 k the
Fallriver is worth 18K) Better made, stronger cabinet, stronger
motors, stronger control system, better made shell. The Fallriver
is in our "bottom end" spas and the Cameo is in the
"highest end" of Sundance. There is your Clue. We only have
smart shopper buy Haven Spas.
(Please don't compare our SC or SE or Paramount or Vista spas against
this lower quality product.)
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